Electric All in ones

[BOB357]

Like any other piece of equipment, it takes some time to master.

 

[thunderwagn]

This past weekend, I brewed using 10 lbs of white wheat. It would seem that wheat sucks up more water than barley. Thinking that I had my Brewzilla dialed in, I missed on the amount of total water l needed based on using barley. Sorry for the ramble here. Point is I have no idea what I'm doing with the Brewzilla yet.

That's a ton of wheat...especially if you didn't add enough malted grains or rice hulls. Notorious for stuck sparges. Also, it's smaller and needs a tighter crush.

 

[Donoroto]

Point is I have no idea what I'm doing with the Brewzilla yet.

Yeah, welcome to the Brewzilla club.

Despite my increase in sparge water to 2.25 gallons, I am still putting less than the desired 5.5 gallons into the fermenter. Ugh. I'm almost happy with everything else though.

I have found that I need to set the controller temperature nearly 10° higher than the desired mash temperature, even with continuous recirculation it always shows much higher than what I measure at the top.

That temperature issue is what has been preventing me from automating any of my brews, because since the displayed temperature is so dramatically different from real temperature. Had I known that I wouldn't have spent the extra money on the Brewzilla versus the digiboil.

 

[BOB357]

Yeah, welcome to the Brewzilla club.

Despite my increase in sparge water to 2.25 gallons, I am still putting less than the desired 5.5 gallons into the fermenter. Ugh. I'm almost happy with everything else though.

I have found that I need to set the controller temperature nearly 10° higher than the desired mash temperature, even with continuous recirculation it always shows much higher than what I measure at the top.

That temperature issue is what has been preventing me from automating any of my brews, because since the displayed temperature is so dramatically different from real temperature. Had I known that I wouldn't have spent the extra money on the Brewzilla versus the digiboil.

My Digiboil maintains mash temperature very well +/- 1C or less. It can get scary if you believe the display. I set the temperature 1 degree C higher than my target and recirculate, monitoring with a long stem dial thermometer inserted through the lid and a floating dairy thermometer in the mash to double check when I open to stir. Your Brewzilla should maintain temperature just as well. I would recommend checking to see if the same offset applies as my + 1 C, and adjust as needed. I've found that eliminating the false bottom helps too. IMO, it's just something extra to clean.

Adjusting the amount into your fermenter is as simple as adding the difference between your actual and desired volume next time, whether to the strike volume or sparge volume. You can also top up after sparging. I know my pre boil needs to be 6.64 gallons for a 60 minute boil and 6.96 gallons for a 90 minute boil. Nice thing about these units is the boiloff will be consistent.

 

[GFHomebrew]

I'm guessing here but if you set temp at let's say 66c and recirculate temperature should eventually even out across the grain bed as long as you dont have channeling going on right?

That's the beauty about recirculation your sending that heated wort through your grain bed rather than just steeping it like a big teabag. Hopefully providing a more uniform mash temperature.

I have my temp probe at the base of my rig not at the top using a digital thermometer in top of mash I find I'm within a degree Centigrade top to bottom on the mash. I set the controller to half a degree temp swing.
Main thing is stable mash temp I rekon and being able to step mash temp if desired.

I love mashing in nice and low in the sacc rest and using the element to slowly rise the mash temp up to next mash rest gradually by dialing back the Power Watt Meter can take 20mins to hit the next step this way.
Anyhow enough rambling.

 

[BOB357]

I still find that a few stirs helps with conversion.

 

[Donoroto]

Boy would I really like to get any hints you might have to make this thing work better, allowing me to automate my step mashes.
===

OK, so let's say I want my mash at 152F. I set the Brewzilla to 163F, the internal temperature sensor reads 159F, and my thermometer at the top reads 152F. Pretty consistently.

This is with the false bottom installed, the 500 watt element (only) on, a malt pipe full of grain, the top cover on the malt pipe, a neoprene jacket around the pot and recirculating as fast as I can without overflowing (about 1/2 throttle on the valve). If I recirculate faster, the top warms a bit (meaning the differential between indicated-on-screen and measured-on-thermometer decreases), but even with rice hulls I can't recirculate full bore (at least, not for long).

Now, the temperature may rise a bit to 161F or even 163F (thus turning the element off as expected) over the course of the hour, but hovering around 161-ish gives me 152-ish. I have the calibration set at 0, so that's not it.

The controller itself is fine, turning the element(s) on and off as expected. And by specifying 80% efficiency in my recipes I hit my numbers consistently well. I do notice that using only the 500 watt element means it might take 30+ minutes to go from 140 to 155 when I do a step mash. What I have to do is pulse the 1900 watt element (10 sec on, 10 sec off) for maybe 10 minutes to bring up the temperature in a reasonable time.

My next brew, here is what I think I need to do:
1. Add more rice hulls (more than a pound) to allow faster recirculation.
2. Enlarge one of the holes in the top mash pipe cover (top screen I guess) so I can push the thermometer down deep into the mash, instead of monitoring the liquid being recirculated above the mash pipe cover. (Note that this liquid is being pumped from the bottom of the unit right to the top and should be 160F...but isn't)

I'm at a loss what else it could be or what I might be doing wrong. Any comments are welcome.

 

[BOB357]

Ignore the digital readout and forget the top screen until you're ready to sparge. You need to know the real temperature measured near the center of the mash, and you really should be stirring at least every 15 or 20 minutes to maintain a stable temperature throughout the mash. Once you get your procedure dialed in and learn what to expect of the temperature control, you'll seldom look at mash temperature. As for step mashing, I've never found the need. With today's highly modified malts, the consensus indicates that there's seldom any advantage.

I don't think anyone here using an all in one is step mashing, but you might go back to the beginning of this thread, if you haven't already, and read through to see. There is a bunch of good information from when several of us were getting our systems dialed in. Even if you don't find anything on step mashing, you can find some useful stuff on grain crush, mash thickness, flow rate issues and using or not using false bottoms and various screens. Just my opinion, but I don't think the either the 500 or 1900 watt element are a good fit for step mashing. Maybe the 1900 watt if you can get a really good flow rate.

 

[Suga]

Wondering if anyone uses the whirlpool arm in the mash. Thinking it would recirculate and stir at same time.

 

[Donoroto]

Ignore the digital readout and forget the top screen until you're ready to sparge. You need to know the real temperature measured near the center of the mash, and you really should be stirring at least every 15 or 20 minutes to maintain a stable temperature throughout the mash. Once you get your procedure dialed in and learn what to expect of the temperature control, you'll seldom look at mash temperature. As for step mashing, I've never found the need. With today's highly modified malts, the consensus indicates that there's seldom any advantage.

Ay, there's the rub: That readout cannot be ignored, as this is what the controller uses to turn the elements on and off. Correct or not, I need it.

I never stir, except at mash in. I'll give it a try. I'll also take some measurements throughout the malt pipe to see if there are any real temperature differences. With the dead space surrounding it, I suspect any differences will be minimal. TBD.

As for step mashing: Certain of my recipes require it, and not doing it gives different results. So I step mash. To each his own.

@Suga: I can barely stir the mash with a stout spoon, I don't think the water flow from recirculation will do much of anything. Once the mash beds down it is fairly heavy. I use a piece of tubing on the end of the recirculation arm which does create a small whirlpool action, but it has little value.

 

[BOB357]

Ay, there's the rub: That readout cannot be ignored, as this is what the controller uses to turn the elements on and off. Correct or not, I need it.

I never stir, except at mash in. I'll give it a try. I'll also take some measurements throughout the malt pipe to see if there are any real temperature differences. With the dead space surrounding it, I suspect any differences will be minimal. TBD.

As for step mashing: Certain of my recipes require it, and not doing it gives different results. So I step mash. To each his own.

@Suga: I can barely stir the mash with a stout spoon, I don't think the water flow from recirculation will do much of anything. Once the mash beds down it is fairly heavy. I use a piece of tubing on the end of the recirculation arm which does create a small whirlpool action, but it has little value.

Just telling you what works. As for the digital readout, you are correct that the controller uses it to cycle the element(s). The problem with dwelling on it, is that it fluctuates 6 or 8 degrees while the mash remains constant within about 2 degrees F, so it doesn't represent the actual mash temperature.

What I'm saying is to ignore it as a means to determine the actual mash temperature.

As for step mashing, whether it is beneficial is subjective in most cases, so I won't argue your point.

 

[Suga]

Yeah that makes sense, guess i'm thinking from the biab metthod I've been using with my mash and boil. Just bought refurbished robobrew for the extra room and pump. Last brew was 79% mash efficiency using biab method malt pipe and bag, and i stirred it about every 20mins also use rice hulls. But i don't do big brews mostly looking for around 5-6 % so never really have a thick mash.

 

[Mark Farrall]

I'm guessing high mash thickness will decrease the temperature levelling effect of the recirculation. I'm doing full volume mashing with mine and temp at the bottom and top is like Bob's, +/- 1C. Maybe try a thinner mash? I'm still getting close to 80% efficiency with the full volume mash and a fine crush.

I don't step mash often, but I do use both elements when I'm stepping up and just turn the larger one off when I'm at the next temperature.

 

[Donoroto]

I'm guessing high mash thickness will decrease the temperature levelling effect of the recirculation.

Yes, exactly. So what I will do is use less grain, like 11 lbs instead of 12. I'd been thinking that 2 qts/lb is pretty thin... without accounting for the 2 gallons (of 6.3) that are below and around the malt pipe. When I account for that properly, mash is about 1.4 qts/lb... like porrige!

I think this is exactly my problem.

Stay tuned, lets see what happens.

 

[Craigerrr]

I have been wet conditioning my grain before milling, it is a very simple process.
This has made a huge difference for circulation, I highly recommend it for these all in ones.
Instead of the husks being crushed, they are left torn, but intact.
The amount of water to use is approximately 2% of the weight of your grain bill.
Use a spray bottle, weigh the water before and during until you have sprayed the correct amount.
I split my grain into two buckets, spray water and stir, repeat, repeat, repeat.
You then need to let the grain sit for about 15 to 20 minutes before milling.
This allows the grain to absorb the water, keeps you mill from getting gummed up.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

A question regarding the 65L Brewzilla:

Is it possible to brew a "No Sparge" 1.050 OG beer in the 65L Brewzilla and reasonably comfortably fill 2 x 5 Gallon kegs with the yield.

 

[Mark Farrall]

Haven't tried the 65 L version, but I did a 23 litre, 1.050 batch no sparge in the 35 litre version recently. It wasn't completely full, maybe room for a few more litres of sparge water.

 

[Head First]

A question regarding the 65L Brewzilla:

Is it possible to brew a "No Sparge" 1.050 OG beer in the 65L Brewzilla and reasonably comfortably fill 2 x 5 Gallon kegs with the yield.

Yes it should work. You need aprox. 22#s of grain at 70% efficiency. It will be about a 15gal mash and that leaves you about 2 to 3 inches of kettle left. I calculate 5.25gal of dead space with pipe so would be a fairly thick mash in pipe but if you BIAB the mash is much thinner. I am still trying both ways as bigger beers are harder to fit.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Yes it should work. You need aprox. 22#s of grain at 70% efficiency. It will be about a 15gal mash and that leaves you about 2 to 3 inches of kettle left. I calculate 5.25gal of dead space with pipe so would be a fairly thick mash in pipe but if you BIAB the mash is much thinner. I am still trying both ways as bigger beers are harder to fit.

I'm also considering a Digiboil 65L with false bottom and BIAB, and this post may have tipped me in that direction. Thank you!

 

[Craigerrr]

A question regarding the 65L Brewzilla:

Is it possible to brew a "No Sparge" 1.050 OG beer in the 65L Brewzilla and reasonably comfortably fill 2 x 5 Gallon kegs with the yield.

I would doubt that. You may get

A question regarding the 65L Brewzilla:

Is it possible to brew a "No Sparge" 1.050 OG beer in the 65L Brewzilla and reasonably comfortably fill 2 x 5 Gallon kegs with the yield.

Even if it was just a little too close for comfort, you could make X amount of DME part of your recipe. It can get to be a sticky mess when pouring it into the boil, the steam gums up the cup. You could reserve X amount of your total water volume to dissolve the DME into, then add it to the kettle with the rest of your wort.
I might just be talking myself into using this method on some of my bigger beers, in order to keep the mash... stirrable...