German Hefe

[Nola_Brew]

Will be brewing this week.
4.5 lb German Pils
4.5 lb white wheat
8oz Munich 10
8 oz Carapils
WLP 300
Plan:
Step Mash: 110* for 20 min then 152-154 for 40 min
Ferment 62 for 2 days then increase to 68 until FG is achieved

Biggest question is water profile.
I use Bru N Water.
If I choose the Munich boiled profile, the target is:
CA 12 / 17 Mg / 4 Na / 18 SO4 / 8 CI / 95 Bicarbonate

I have read countless posts all showing different profiles. I can work with the above but have no way to raise Bicarbonate without increasing NA.

I've read that all that is really needed is CA in the 40-50 range which is much higher than the Munich boiled profile on Bru N Water.

I've also read mash PH should be 5.2- 5.4. In order to achieve this I would need to add 7.4 mL of lactic. Seems a bit high. Will this much lactic effect the taste?

This is only the 2nd time I brew a Hefe. First was 5 yrs ago at the beginning of my brewing career. That beer sucked in the beginning but got much better as it aged (bottled).

I now keg and I want to drink this fresh.

For those who have experience with this style, direct me to a good water profile that will make this brew a success.

 

[oliver]

never target Bicarbonate, that 95ppm number happens to be what the bicarbonate is in Munich water, from my understanding it's purely a geographic thing. You need 0 ppm Bicarbonate for a hefe. Target the other 5 and you'll be fine. Munich is a good profile for hefe, soft water needed for Hefes

 

[Nola_Brew]

Brewed last Friday. Used the Munich boiled profile.
Started temp at 62 for two days now at 68 and 6psi to finish.
Aiming for early next week to keg.
Looking forward to trying this one out.

 

[J A]

I'd lose the Munich in the grain bill and all that wheat should make the carapils completely redundant. Hefe should be light golden color and relatively light bodied with a crisp finish.

 

[Nola_Brew]

Finished at 1.005./ 5.4 ABV.
Will probably keg tomorrow

 

[Nola_Brew]

I'd lose the Munich in the grain bill and all that wheat should make the carapils completely redundant. Hefe should be light golden color and relatively light bodied with a crisp finish.

Yes the Munich is non existent. It was a recipe online I found. First time brewing a Hefe in 5 years.

 

[J A]

That beer looks great! Hope it tastes great for you, as well!

 

[Nola_Brew]

Been on gas for 9 days now. This beer sucked 5 days ago. Today it's much better but too much clove and non existent banana.
I fermented at 62 for 2 days then 68 to finish. There is literally no banana at all which sucks because that's what I wanted. Next time gonna ferment at the high end or more to see what happens.

 

[Megary]

Thanks very much for the update. I was really hoping you were going to post a follow-up.

Your hydrometer picture seems so much lighter/paler than the finished beer. Is that just a lighting thing?

Sorry to hear that it didn’t turn out as you hoped but your feedback is providing a valuable data point for everyone else. I’m about a month away from my first Dunkel Weiss (sp?) and I’ll be using Munich Classic, a yeast that by some sources is considered an equivalent to WLP300. I‘ll be looking for banana as well and I suspect I’ll start in the upper 60’s and finish in the low-mid 70’s. Brewing 3 gallons into the fermenter, I might pitch only a half-pack instead of my usual full pack.

Question: Did you under-pitch or in any way try and stress the yeast?

 

[J A]

Hefe yeasts like the upper ranges for fruit esters. More phenols in the lower ranges. A lot is going to depend on your ferulic acid rest, too. The compounds that build the esters and phenols during fermentation are created during the mash.

 

[Nola_Brew]

Thanks very much for the update. I was really hoping you were going to post a follow-up.

Your hydrometer picture seems so much lighter/paler than the finished beer. Is that just a lighting thing?

Sorry to hear that it didn’t turn out as you hoped but your feedback is providing a valuable data point for everyone else. I’m about a month away from my first Dunkel Weiss (sp?) and I’ll be using Munich Classic, a yeast that by some sources is considered an equivalent to WLP300. I‘ll be looking for banana as well and I suspect I’ll start in the upper 60’s and finish in the low-mid 70’s. Brewing 3 gallons into the fermenter, I might pitch only a half-pack instead of my usual full pack.

Question: Did you under-pitch or in any way try and stress the yeast?

If anything I over pitched. Maybe that contributed to the lack of banana.
As for the color, may be lighting. I'll pour another pint later and snap a photo outside.

 

[Nola_Brew]

Hefe yeasts like the upper ranges for fruit esters. More phenols in the lower ranges. A lot is going to depend on your ferulic acid rest, too. The compounds that build the esters and phenols during fermentation are created during the mash.

I didnt do anything special during the mash. I was turn to do a two step, beginning at 115 then finished higher. The more stuff I read th more I didn't know what I should do.
As mentioned this is only the second time brewing a Hefe. I'm 92 batches in and most of my brews are Apa, IPA, Neipa now leaning to more sessions ales.

 

[Nola_Brew]

This is it. Color is really light and hazy.
Flavor wise it's getting better but still way too much clove for my liking. I have three 50 ML vials I harvested from my last starter. I may just make a vitality starter with one vial and pitch that or I may just pitch the vial with no starter. I have some other beers lined up so it may be 2 months before I can rebrew a Hefe. I will need to figure how how to reduce the clove and gain banana.

 

[Megary]

It looks great.

 

[Donoroto]

Hazy is a feature in a Hefeweitzen, looks perfect.
Clove as i understand it is from that first rest (110F IIRC), while Banana is from a protein rest at 144 F. I'm new at this so take that with a chunk of salt. I brewed a Hefeweitzen aiming for Franziskaner, and it was pretty close with somewhat less clove than desired.

 

[J A]

while Banana is from a protein rest at 144 F.

Yeah...that's wrong on a couple of levels. Banana-flavor esters aren't derived during protein rest and a protein rest (not really desirable in a Hefeweizen) is generally in the 120-something range. There is information that shows isoamyl acetate production (more banana flavor) can be impacted by the amount of glucose in the wort so holding at certain saccharinification rest temps (the 144F temp is in the sugar-producing range) may help or hinder production of that ester.

 

[Donoroto]

Ok, my bad (hence the salt comment). But am I close with the clove?

 

[J A]

Yeah, the Ferrulic acid rest is in that range. I always get the ester and phenol production mixed up, myself. I can never remember without checking which is which. Mashing for Hefeweizens can be tricky and demanding. Most homebrewers just try to control with fermentation temp and pitching and that works out well enough.
Personally, when I want a wheat beer with spicy/fruity notes I just brew a damn Belgian Wit. I find the flavors less strident and the yeast strains more easily managed.

 

[Nola_Brew]

For me this batch has way too much clove for my liking. If I brew this style again I will need to figure out how to greatly reduce the clove element.

I read to start fermentation low (62) then increase (68), which is what I did. It didn't work. I did not do a step mash- not sure if that contributed or assisted in the lack of banana.

WLP300 was supposed to be more banana forward which is why I chose that yeast over the Wyeast version.

 

[J A]

My instinct says, single infusion, relatively low pitch at 68, hold for 1 day after full krausen and then free rise to as warm as 75.
You got me curious, now...I might have to brew up a hefe just see what I can do with it.